We would like to welcome our latest member ZxBiohazardZx...

May he enjoy his new privileges...

Yet another addition to our Artists Guild as Kamnet has decided to open up his new personal workplace here at Simuscape...

May he enjoy his new home...

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I'd like to welcome OzTrans as a member to our Artists Guild, moving all his current TTDLX-work to Simuscape as of now!

May he enjoy his stay here with the rest of us...

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What's about wallyweb?

He is there now as well, with his atelier

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Yes he is - although he's the very first member of the Guild - after me that is... And so is Athanasios and ZxBiohazardZx... - both of them obviously most welcome!

And speaking of new members, we'd also like to welcome Snail to our Artists Guild! May he as well enjoy his new workshop...

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Let us all give a warm welcome also to Wallyweb who - as of today - is opening up his own workshops inside the Guild. Look forward to some interesting stuff inside both his Visual Studio section as well as his SimuLibs downloads section. But for the latter, remember to bring coins...

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Yet more artists has moved their work to the Artists Guild. Let's welcome Yoshi and Snail to Simuscape...

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By invitation and by request, Oberhümer has been appointed as a new member of the Artists Guild!

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By invitation boohey has been appointed to our new group; Artists Guild Team, where he joins Leanden in his Guild projects. Welcome him onboard!

At the same time also oberhuemer and stelepe has been re-located to this new group!

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Hope I can add some magic to the guild

Of course you will!

Well, I guess someone must have noticed this is not the case anymore, so I feel I should say a couple of words

My initial idea was to make my creations and my ideas available to the Artists' Guild, so that I would get the feedback of a limited number of artists and coders, before making it publicly available. Namely, I was planning to publish the playtesting version of my trainsets once I would reach a point to make it playable. That would have helped me a lot to understand what I could do to make my set even better, or to find out some new tricks that could help me enhance my coding. Similarly, it could have been the beginning of new discussions and a way to exchange ideas and tricks: for instance, I hoped the Guild would have been the natural place for very technical threads about the inner functioning of coding, which would have been of little interest by end users.

However, this has been made impossible by some new, undocumented rule concerning not only privacy, but also exclusivity, of the works published in the Artists' Guild (namely, a new rule stating that every member of the Guild should have their works posted on Simuscape only, and nowhere else). Please note that, even as of now (May 16th), on the thread that explains the rules of the Guild (http://www.simuscape.net/simutalk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16) I can find no information whatsoever about this "exclusivity rule".

At the beginning I was sure I would have found in Simuscape a new space to share experiences and ideas about TTD with a number of mature people, in a relaxed environment where rules would be documented and reasonably enforced across the board.
However, I have to state with regret that my hope was a little bit too optimistic. The way certain events happened was quite abrupt to say the least. I understand the basic concept of rule enforcement; however, from the other side, one should also understand that giving out a notice, or a reminder, before an enforcement action takes place, while not required, is a simple form of politeness and a usually a good practice in all situations. Especially because inactivity can occur to anyone at any time. I have to admit that I didn't expect such a lack of tact, and I was disappointed.

Another thing that surprises me, is that I was told I didn't follow this new (still undocumented) rule of exclusivity which I mentioned above. The interesting thing is that, as a matter of fact, this rule does not seem to apply to some other members of the Guild. I can accept the fact that some people might be granted privileges (?) over others, but the complete lack of explanation of the nature and the reason of such privileges makes me perplex to say the least. Namely, it wouldn't hurt to know the reason why some members of the Guild are allowed to have their work published elsewhere (and, in some cases, even to keep their own TTD-related websites), while other members are not.

In any case, I can understand when there is no need for both my work and my ideas, so you won't have to worry about having me in the Guild anymore from now on. Unless, of course, it can become a place where ideas are fruitfully exchanged under clear, transparent rules applied in a warm, respectful environment.

I suspect someone's reaction will probably be a "well, who cares!". If that's the case, it's good enough for me. (It would actually prove my point).

Those who are interested in testing the French Set can of course do so by sending me a PM, either here or on TT-Forums, and they will receive their copy of the set. All I ask for is that it doesn't get distributed to other users until the set is finalized without informing me first. And, of course, I expect constructive criticism. The more I get now, the better the set will be!

I will of course keep describing the new features of my set in my thread here. My only disappointment is that I thought I had found a more constructive environment than what TT-Forums sometimes is, but facts seem to have disproven this hope of mine.

Cheers,

Snail

I don't think SAC is forbidding you from posting the finished artwork elsewhere or having your own TTD web page. What she is forbidding is having a second development thread elsewhere.

But it would be better to let SAC speak.

Ok, but that wouldn't change much. Such a policy would be (1) still undocumented in the Rules, and (2) not enforced for every member, according to undocumented criteria...

Firstly I'd like to point out that the intention with Simuscape from the beginning was to allow for me personally to have a more private sphere where I could continue to develop my graphics without having to deal with dicussions or arguings that took place elsewhere - and so the idea of a private section along with a public showcase area started to grow. However, shortly afterwards it turned out I wasn't the only one desiring such an option as I was approached by other artists within the community requesting to join in. And so the Artists Guild was formed.

Secondly, the basic idea with the Guild is to offer personal workshops away from the public eye, allowing for members to create and develop new graphics and other things in an peaceful and friendly environment. There aren't any logical reasons to be a member of the Guild other than the privacy option itself, since that's what the Guild is all about. And Guild members decides for themselves when it's time to reveal tidbits of their work inside our Visual Studio, be it for feedback or simply to show what is worked on inside the Guild.

And the basic idea with the Artists Guild privacy is clearly stated. What has happened recently is that we've reached a decision to ensure that this privacy feature is maintained, thus making sure that anyone applying for a Guild membership is also doing this for the sake of our privacy feature. And by becoming a member of the Guild it shouldn't be an issue keeping a personal workshop here on Simuscape only. And by all means, current members of the Guild has chosen to join the Guild for the sake of this privacy option, and it is due to opinions raised that we have decided to make this more clear what's expected. A member that has no intentions of keeping his or hers workshop a Simuscape exclusive only, isn't really seeking the privacy option and therefor no need to apply in the first place.



Again, if desiring a private personal workshop which is the main idea behind the Guild, why does it needs to be litterally printed out? It clearly states that the Guild is about privacy!



Sure, I can understand your frustration, but again, it is stated that a demotion can occur without further notice. Those of you who were demoted recently was so not only due to not desiring the actual privacy feature, but more so due to the fact that neither of you had even begun any projects inside the Guild after being granted memberships. I also made it clear that once you're ready to become active members of the Guild - and seeking the privacy option - you're welcome to apply again. Otherwise we have the Visual Studio which has been re-designed to allow also for non-Guild members to have their own personal categories for showcase purposes.



In fact, those who are currently members of the Guild does not have any development work outside of Simuscape. OzTrans, Leanden, Kamnet, Wally and myself all have our work located to Simuscape only. Then we have a few other members of the Guild for other reasons than purely developing their custom work here. For instance Athanasios who was a very active member on the old TT-Artist site, ZBZ who was one of the most active contributors in my INFRA-threads over at TT-forums - and he' also a global moderator at Simuscape, and so on...



Like I said Snail - and which you pointed out yourself upon being demoted - when and if your desire is to seek privacy as in being a member of the Guild, and an active one at that, you're of course welcome to apply for a membership. However, if you prefer to have development threads in more places than here on Simuscape, than the Guild is obviously not for you, and your personal category within our Visual Studio may be sufficient enough.

It's important to understand that by joining the Guild you're also becoming part of other members of the Guild who has desired the privacy option that comes with a membership, and all of them are obviously interested in maintaining this particular feature - otherwise there wouldn't be a need for the Guild, and it would be open to anyone visiting Simuscape.



This is not about forbidding anyone to do whatever. Each members work is their own property to decide about. If a member decides to use the Guild for development, but choses another site to post their finished artwork - or even tidbits of it, that's up to each artist themselves. The Guild is about allowing development in private in personal workshops, nothing else! But having almost similar development threads both here and elsewhere is defeating the sole purpose with the Guild when it comes to seeking the privacy feature.

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It's not frustration. Just disappointment. Honestly, I thought you could have done much better than that. Oh well...


To my knowledge, the Guild does include artists who have development work published elsewhere (an example is here). Again, I'm not against privileges, but it wouldn't hurt to state that some Guild members are allowed to keep tidbits of development work elsewhere, but others can't.

Cheers,
Snail

You're absolutely right about that, and I apologize for not chosing a different way. However, as it turned out, in your case you clearly stated you didn't saw a need for the Guilds privacy feature, and so in the end it turned out for the best...



MB isn't a member of the Guild due to his graphics development, and as such he doesn't have a personal workshop listed inside the Guild. In his particular case it has to do with his coding knowledge and especially due to m4nfo as there are several sets nearly ready to be coded one way or another. So in other words, MB is a Guild member but he doesn't have a development thread inside the Guild at all. But he does provide showcase areas both here, at TT-forums and at the German languaged TT-MS Headquarters...

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First of all, thanks for your recent letter, SAC, which made your reasons more clear. I´m taking the opportunity to post some thoughts in this thread, instead of replying (late) to your mail.


What I don´t seem to understand (and this is probably also valid for Snail) is the basis for the "Artists Guild". I don´t think it can only be a desire for "privacy" in the first place, simply because the best "private" place for developing is still the artist´s own PC (this might be different for joint developments).

IMO, the basis for the Guild is (resp should be) primarily the untroubled exchange of ideas.

Although, if that´s a misconception from my side, and you are seeing the Guild primarily as a "workplace" with its resources supplied by yourself, you may be right to cancel unneeded arrangements. OTOH, with most artists working individually, it would make no sense for them to enter the Guild under that rules, with the usual unsteadiness of drawing/coding work, depending heavily on RL issues.

regards
Michael

I'm pretty sure this is valid for all of us, having our main workdesk on our PC - or Mac - rather than on any website. But as - to my knowledge - none of these machines provides feedback or any other constructive critizism, we also need a different kind of resource, hence the online world with websites dedicated to everyones particular interests...



Oh but it does! Those artists currently members of the Guild are members simply because they want the "privacy" that comes with it, and as such doesn't desire the 24/7 public availability, but more so the feedback that can be provided by other members of the Guild. And again, when anyone feel the need to get feedback from the end users, he or she simply post inside the Visual Studio. And there are more differences, especially with TT-forums recent changes as far as the ability to control what's posted, Simuscape makes clear without any doubts that each members own work, whatever is posted and so on, is the sole property of the artist, and he or she decides entirely upon that - not Simuscape.

And it's quite evident that this is a feature that is desired as there are more going on inside the Guild with different projects, than what's being visually provided in our Public Arena...

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